Copper Shower Pans vs. Rubber Membranes

Copper Shower Pans vs. Rubber Membranes 

By Chris Lawson

I always want to give my customers and blog followers the best advice on the most economical yet highest quality tile-related installations. I've learned this information from years of hands-on doing of the jobs myself. As you may know from my actual web site I do all my jobs personally and have over 34 years of experience.co

In all those years out on the job I have pretty much seen it all. So when I make a recommendation on what's the best way to go, it's because I've weighed 

out the best options for my customers out there on he job. I also do repairs and always have: many in my industry overlook the repairs as not being lucrative enough to warrant their time, so I do get a lot of repairs.

The most costly repair is the leaky walk-in shower pan, which can sometimes be in 

excess of $500. I've done well over 100 of these repairs in my career and only 1 or 2% of these were rubber membrane repairs, while the other 98% were copper pans. In the instances of the rubber membrane repairs it was always improper installation by nails being nailed below the waterline. As we have all heard from the eco criers, it takes hundreds of years for plastic and heavy rubber products to deteriorate in the environment, so it only makes sense that a rubber membrane would almost never be affected by water and would surely last past my lifetime when installed correctly.

The copper pan, on the other hand, is metal and starts the deterioration process

almost immediately when in contact with water. We've all seen a green copper penny, and that green on the copper is just like rust on iron and steel. I have removed so many copper pans that were rusted through (for lack of a better word). I've seen it again and again: tearing out a shower floor and 12 inches up the wall because water was dripping into the living room ruining the ceiling and requiring more costly repairs.

Furthermore, copper pans are very costly even without repairs: most have to be 

custom-made and the plumbing labor is very expensive. The cost is $400 to $800 and even more depending on the layout of the shower floor to be dried in. On the other hand, I install rubber membrane to dry in the shower floor at a total cost of $175 and that includes the concrete in the floor to slope to the drain. I have several contractors who used to use copper who now call me to come out just to dry-in showers for them at a huge savings for a much more reliable and longer-lasting product. Using logic and common sense, it seems obvious that for less money and a longer-lasting, dependable shower floor the rubber membrane is the best call.

I don't supply materials on any of my jobs and don't ever gain monetarily on any of my recommendations: I speak only from experience and the desire for my customers to get the most for their money.

For more answers to all of your tile-related questions, visit my "Ask Chris" blog here

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Copper Pan vs. Rubber Membrane-Unsanded vs. sanded grout-Durock vs. HardyBoard Lowes and Home Depot? Ask Chris I Tile Excellence

Is your plumber insisting on using a copper pan for your shower but you remember reading that rubber membranes were not only much more economical, but lasted forever, and did not leak or rust? You can't remember the details, but you want to talk to the plumber and ask questions or insist on using a rubber membrane, but you need your facts.   "ask chris", the do-it-yourself,  and consumer friendly tile installation blog of Tile Excellence, Inc, is written and answered personally by owner Chris Lawson based on his 34 years experience. There are posts all about copper pans vs. rubber membranes.

Doing it yourself? Tile on top of wood? Durock vs. Hardyboard? Is the tile from the designer store necessary, or can he purchase nice tile at a discount store or at Home Depot?

Hired a contractor or tile installation company?  Is three days a long time for installing a backsplash? Is uneven marble floor installation "expected" as you are being told?

At Lowe's or Home Depot and have a question about a product or material? Do you need sanded or unsanded grout? Less expensive thin set, or the more expensive one the salesperson recommended?

His searchable blog allows you instant access to your questions, ask questions or follow his helpful links.

Need more or need immediate answers? Call him directly! You'll find his email and direct number on his site, and almost without exception, he'll answer the phone the first time you call!

Tile Excellence Welcomes Guest Blogger from Truguard Systems, LLC

Our guest bloggers are from the world of tile, and we offer our site to share their stories, experiences, niches and opinions. We at Tile Excellence, Inc. and SEO Marketing for Business in NO WAY endorse, agree/disagree with the opinions stated. We do screen prospective guest bloggers, and edit posts, but we are are not responsible for the contents of any guest blogs. We always encourage readers to do their research! Also, feel free to ask questions and make comments to our guest bloggers posts. We do not allow advertising or links in the blog post itself, but you can find contact information under our Guest Blogger link. Thank you. Tell us what you think!!

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Chris Lawson, Owner of Tile Excellence, Gloucester, MA, blogger for "ask chris"
tileexcellence@gmail.com

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Trugard Systems, LLC surprises the Tile Industry with high quality and affordability of a greatly needed Solution

 Founders Ryan & Matt Kriser

Trugard Systems, LLC is solving a long-term problem: The Schluter 

Kerdi company has been dominating for over 25 years with the relatively new revolutionary state-of-the-art bonded polyethylene tile shower waterproofing system embraced by Europe over 40 years ago. This new substantially improved waterproofing system is changing the way the whole tile industry waterproofs showers.

The reason this should be important to each of us, is because there are over 22,000 “shower leak” and over 33,000 “leaking shower” Google searches every month. The old shower pan and cement backer board systems are problematic and cause a lot of heartache, frustration, and expensive repairs. We call it a "shower pan-demic". The Kriser brothers, Ryan and Matt, said "it's time", time to take this superior state-of-the-art shower wall membrane, sometimes called shower liner, to the masses through affordability. By doing that everyone that needs to tile a wall or shower floor can do so with confidence, practically eliminating all shower leaks completely. The goal was to make the superior bonded polyethylene tile shower waterproof system available to everyone. 

For the Kriser brothers, having been home builders previously, we experienced the frustrations of the problematic rubber shower pans and cement backer board systems. Over time we absolutely had leaks. A good family friend's walls rotted out in their master bathroom behind the shower in only seven years after their new home was built. Cement backer board is porous and actually absorbs water and moisture vapor easily gets through the porous substrate. We are passionate about providing an affordable way for the whole tile industry of how they waterproof and protect the structures of the buildings from the moisture in the shower stall and steam room areas.

The membrane protects the building structure by creating a complete vapor-shield and watertight envelope behind ceramic tile or stone. Tile showers are beautiful, artistic and have unlimited artistic designs which makes them the preferred choice for showers.

Ryan doing stress test!

The vapor-shield is a soft polyethylene waterproof membrane bonded to medical grade webbing which acts as an anchor for the membrane to adhere with thin-set mortar to the walls and floors of the shower. The pliable membrane has incredible yet limited crack-bridging capabilities and is forgiving as structures move or settle.

Some people ask about the liquid shower membranes like Redgard or others, and what I will tell you is that most of the professional tile contractors will not use them. Most of them are only rated at a 1/8 inch crack-bridging warranty. Homes do settle, and there are earthquakes. Generally speaking, the liquid membranes just have not been able to hold up to the same standard and performance as the bonded polyethylene waterproofing systems. Any potential leaking shower is everyone's worst nightmare. You definitely want to make your tile shower pan out of a shower waterproof membrane that can hold up under most unforeseen situations.

One of the reasons this system is superior is because of one of its greatest benefits which is that the vapor-shield is installed on top of the walls and mortar bed just under the tile, shedding the water quickly and directly into the drain allowing the shower to dry out promptly so that it does not encourage mold and microorganism growth, leaving a maintenance and worry-free tiled shower.