Ceramic Tile Repairs: Floor Tile Replacement and Shower Re-grouts

Ceramic Tile Repairs: Floor Tile Replacement and Shower Re-grouts 

By Chris Lawson

The is an article rewritten/edited by the staff at Mass Reality. This is one of two articles rewritten and then used as an Expert Guide for use by their clients. This blog entry was orginally written by Chris Lawson. 

Tile repairs are a very specialized service and can be hard to get tile contractors interested in small, sometimes difficult, detailed repairs. The trick to these repairs is to remove and replace the cracked or broken materials without it being obvious that it has been repaired. To complete these repairs and have it not look like an afterthought is a very tricky undertaking.

The first step is to remove the grout around the targeted tile so as not to disturb the tiles around it that will not be removed. Grout binds together tiles and gives it solidity and if not removed then action against one tile can affect others. Many times it takes a hammer and a chisel to remove tiles and if the grout is not removed first then the impact can break surrounding tiles as well.

After the grout is removed, the tile to be replaced can be broken from the middle out in pieces and removed carefully using the hammer and chisel a little at a time or all at once if the tile is not bonded very well. If it is bonded strongly, then a little at a time is the only way to remove it. After the tile is removed, the task of chipping off the thin set or adhesive is the next step and can be very difficult and time-consuming - as well as creating a mess and a lot of dust! Again, the hammer and chisel will be your best bet unless you have an electric alternative. Once you've removed all the adhesive, you can re-adhere your replacement tile back in place of the one you've removed, wait some time for it to dry, and then re-grout the repaired area with the same color grout as the rest of the area around the repair.

Shower re-grouts are in some ways much easier because you don't have to worry about breaking tiles from removal. But scraping and cleaning of the grout and old caulk can be very patience-testing. Any loose grout or caulk has to be removed completely before the new can be applied. The trick to these repairs is getting the new grout to adhere to the old grout. This is generally accomplished by removing enough grout from the area so the new grout has room to stay. Generally you need 1/8 of a inch of new grout on top of the old for it to adhere and not flake out later. Repairs are in some ways much harder than standard installations and in many cases you should get a professional to come out and implement the repair if possible. If you can't seem to gather any interest from any tile guys to do your repair, I will be glad to assist you in any way I can - just give me a call and I'll gladly walk you through it right over the phone!

- See more at: http://www.massrealty.com/articles/ceramic-tile-repairs-floor-tile-replacement-and-shower-regrouts#sthash.8DhP4fQz.J0sjHl0A.dpufCeramic Tile Repairs: Floor Tile Replacement and Shower Re-grouts

How to Install Ceramic Tile Floor

Tile Excellence responds to bad advise on "how to lay ceramic tile" found on ask.com. Consumers Beware!

Here's a question from answers.com, which Tile Excellence oftens answers. We've even won best answer a few times. 

In response to the question, "How to Install Ceramic Tile Floor"

"To install ceramic tile, first grout the area. Press the first tile on starting in a corner. Each additional tile should have 1/4" space all around the tile. Apply more grout to the seams and let it dry for several hours. Wipe off all excess grout with..."

Though not claiming my answer was the best, and with a full disclosure that I am not an EXPERT, though doing tile for almost five years, I consider myself an apprentice. The advice given below and to this reader was based on my experience with this master tile installer, I feel I can respond. 

Your response to my comments will be helpful, so please feel free to comment even if you don't agee. That's what this site is all about!

1-GROUT is NOT used to lay the tile!! STOP! Thin set is used. GROUT is CEMENT!!! I about died when I saw those instructions-designed for CONSUMERS who are doing it themselves, and he told them to grout the area and then lay down the tile!!!! Wipe it off after four hours??? What, with a chisel???? You lay the tile after applied a layer of thin-set.

2-Start in a corner??? Why, because it's easiest? Even "expert" how-to books will say to start in the middle of the floor with the whole tiles, thus insuring full tiles on all sides. I understand that thinking, except in doing it this way, you will also have "cuts on all four sides, something professional tile installers who care about aesthetics will avoid. I won't even touch the "aesthetic" value of a floor which starts in a corner. 

To me, that sounds like an inexperienced and lazy tile installer. [mentor] always starts with full tiles at the entrance of the bathroom, and full tiles in front of tub (lay out varies depending on where tub is located). Cuts are kept to a minimum, often with full tiles on at least 2 or 4 sides, and other necessary cuts are reserved for low visibility spots, such as behind the toilet and far end corners. This gives a beautiful overall balances layout-not always the easiest, but certainly the most consumer-pleasing layout strategy. Now, I know there are other factors involved, , but that particular  issue was always important in any tile project planning of [mentor] .

3-as for adding more "grout" to the seams after laying the tile with grout, I again, am in disbelief as he then says to let it sit for 4 hours before wiping. You cannot "wipe" dry grout as he describes. This much I know as grouting was my "specialty" during my internship. After the floor is laid with thin-set the floor is covered with grout. BUT, it's done a section at at time, small sections because you do not want to disturb the tile. So sections as they dry are wiped down with damp sponge in a systematic and sequential order until the entire floor is done. Then the floor has to sit for at least 12 hours, preferably 24 hrs. At that point you will need to wipe the tile again with a damp sponge, as there will be a film from the grout, and this is easily wiped away. Also if you follow this advise, you'll be walking on the tile after only 4 hours. Oh, but since it's st in CEMENT, maybe tile shifting isn't a problem????

4-Not all tile flooring uses 1/4 inch spaces between tiles (spacers-the little white cross like plastic pieces used to accurately "space" between tiles can be 1/16th (marble and granite), 1/4, 1/8th, 3/16ths *ceramic) depend on the size of the tile used and the design. Tile installation is not "cookie cutter" design-it's individual as is each customer.

I can tell you from experience, laying a beautiful ceramic tile floor is not easy, and takes planning and experience. That's NOT to say people cannot do it themselves-that's one of the main reasons for this blog is to help DIY' ers with questions and to share experiences, but it does mean there are people that know what they are talking about, and people who think they do, and people that have no idea, but say it like they do anyways. I already said I'm not an expert, and when  [tile mentor]  reads this, he'll ammend any errors, but I feel confident he'd be happy I said something because innocent consumers listening the the "best" answers.com to this question will have a disastrously outcome if they listen to this "expert".

Check out credentials, see if people are "selling" something, read testimonials, check out their blogs. Not everyone answering consumer questions are doing so for the right reasons.

I know [mentor] tries not to slam anyone or any business, and I admit, I didn't follow the rest of this answer to find out if this was written by a tile expert or business. I got so stuck after reading the first line, I flew into "protect the customer" mode, and read enough to know this was bad advice.

People-even among professionals do things differently-and I don't think [tile mentor]  knows everything, even about tile installation. But he is always willing to learn and listen, and apply newly learned techniques and use new tools. However, customer service, helping consumers, helping DYI do things in the simplest ways, at affordable prices, resulting in tile installation they can be proud of brings him joy and motivates him. I know telling consumers to start a tile floor in the fashion this writer did would really upset him, so for now, I'm the voice of warning.

Please feel free to comment or ask questions. AGAIN, I'm not the expert, and you are welcome to ask (ask here in response) more specifics, but I'm knowledgeable to know I'm right about the points I made-esp. the grout issue. I think people writing answers to these really important consumers questions should use extreme caution and be so careful, as the trusty consumer believes the "expert", and will follow their advise. These poor consumers better have their chisels handy to "wipe" off this grout.

I hope I didn't overstep my boundaries. Tile Experts on this blog and walk people through their tile installation projects and answers all questions with NO expectation, without gathering any information, trying to "get" the job (most of his phone and email advise for people working on DIY projects do not even live near his state of MA!), he truly does it to help people, to pay it forward, and prevent consumers from getting ripped off of making big mistakes on their projects for their beloved homes, so I know those knowing more will jump in. 

Thanks

Tile Master in Training

Tile Contractors Installers Manufacturers and Flooring Experts | Join Ask Tile Excellence

Tile Contractors and Installers, Tile Manufacturers, Suppliers  Resellers and Wholesalers | Flooring Professionals

ever consider blogging for a good cause? Helping consumers and DIY er's?? 

Even if you don't need the business,or any new customers, or publicity or want/need to answer consumer questions, or your are pretty famous or you just keep your high tile status on the LD, OUT yourself here and now!

Committing to anything is tough especially when you are trying to run your own business or supervise others. There's barely time in the day. But you might have a little time here and there to put together a great tile related blog to share on this site for our readers and especially consumers looking for answers and people in the business. We want the best of the best tile experts in the world, but I'm told those opportunities do not exist. Expert tile guys are not that common, and with their levels of expertise, experience, education, job titles and some-paychecks- they won't be interested in this blog especially for no pay. That's right, free. Which is actually for you since I charge everyone else. [only kidding] But how's about in the spirit of giving back, of appreciating the gift God has given you, or perhaps just feeling like you want to be part of something that's been built on dreams and a vision, with one behind the scenes yet all over the place person who's never seen a paycheck? Mayve it would be nice if you showed us rookies how it's done. I'm kidding, but I am hoping someone, somewhere in the expert realm of tile will humble themselves and support this blog and add some very needed expert blood to help our consumers have good information to make good choices. 

We need tile experts and all kinds sales and marketing to get this wonderful and helpful blog on track. Don't let the amazing potential be wasted.  Out yourself here. Help this great blog out by sharing your valuable resources and experience. You'll get a lot more exposure and credibility than making comments unrelated to Chris's post, then posting your company website. We want good, ethical , skilled laborers, contractors, designers, flooring experts and stores that sells related tile, flooring, home improvement products to have a chance to share their expertise, their "niches", their systems, their experiences, etc., but I am deleting more "comments" than posting them because they are not helpful, or actual comments or shared experience, but rather attempts to advertise their product/service. BUT...as we've been posting for quite some time, FREE of cost, we do offer guest blogging opportunities where YOU and YOUR COMPANY/PRODUCT is featured. If interested, write to tileexcellence@gmail.com with your thoughts or finished posts. Just remember...honest and ethical, non competitive and no advertising-----and most importantly articles/posts that exposure our readers-your potential customers GOOD, HELPFUL information. 

Thanks.

Rubber Membrane Shower Pan Installation

Rubber Membrane Liner Do's and Don'ts

In the past we've written  about copper pan vs rubber pan liner. This article focuses exclusively on the rubber pan installation itself. With step by step pictures of the rubber pan going in including the drain attachment you will see and understand the do's and don'ts associated with the correct install so you never have to worry about a leaky shower.

   

Always use a single solid membrane for your shower pan. It needs to be 2 feet wider and longer than your actual shower floor area. Example  if your shower is 3 ft by 5 ft  then you need a 5 ft by 7 ft solid rubber membrane. Your rubber membrane needs to go 1 ft up the wall nailed to your wall studs. NEVER nail below 8 inches from the floor. TO CLARIFY KEEP ALL NAILS 8 INCHES ABOVE FINISH FLOOR. Wrap rubber liner over curb and nail Only on outside of curb. NEVER NAIL ON INSIDE OF CURB . Fold corners inside studs when possible. The drain is a 3 piece set, The adjustable screw in drain attaches to the bolt down plate which creates the actual seal against the rubber membrane. The solid one piece membrane goes right over the bottom drain plate and is cut only with a small slit for the 4 mount bolts. The actual drain hole is not cut until the seal plate is bolted\screwed down. The pictures below clarify this process. 

After the membrane is installed  the Hardi board can be installed on the wall AGAIN  NO NAILS BELOW THE 8 INCH MARK ALL NAILS NEED TO BE 8 INCHES ABOVE FINISH FLOOR  as not to create a leak in the membrane. Hardi board can be nailed on top of the curb with generous amounts of caulk used under the Hardiboard to insure top of curb seal .  Hardiboard on inside of curb is NEVER nailed  and will be held in place by the concrete packed on shower floor to create slant to drain.

Rubber membranes installed correctly can always be counted on for decades of leak free shower use. They are by far the most dependable as well as the most economical options for shower floor dry installation. The highest quality option and the most affordable; can't do better than that!! 

Follow the photos below for the step by step walk-through. Ask any questions below. 

regards   Chris 

Rubber membrane nailed 1 ft up bare wall studs

Notice rubber membrane tucked into wall stud  and nailed 12 inches up wall stud

Rubber membrane wraps over curb then nailed on outside of curb and

  Hardi board on top with caulk under to seal

A closer look of membrane nailed up wall studs notice nails 12 inches high 

Rubber membrane ready for top plate to screw down to create 

watertight seal between drain plate and membrane

Top plate screws down in equal sequence to create watertight seal

Final tightening of seal plate om rubber membrane

Finish adjustable screw in drain  ready for concrete slant to be packed

Another view of membrane wrapping over shower curb

Hardi board nailed on wall after membrane installation NEVER 

nail below 8 inches from finish floor

Tops of curbs finished with Hardi board sealed underneath with caulk and nailed

Finished Hardi board installed after membrane installed.  Notice Hardi board caulked

 in corner to seal board

Ditra Flooring Membrane Underlayment System Reality Check

Ditra Flooring System Doesn't Make Sense

I've been installing tile most of my adult life. From the first introduction of Durock then Hardi board,  Even back as far as metal wire and hand "dry pack" concrete bed floors. I personally prefer Hardi board for my installation as I understand the "water barrier" properties of this product and would recommend this product and use it exclusively in my own house as a tile underlayment.

  

Although I am always open to the introduction of new products and always open minded to something that might prove to be a better product or a improvement upon current installation methods.

   

I've know of many tile installers who swear by the installation process of the "Ditra" product. But upon a closer inspection of the product and the installation process both from a common sense and scientific prospective I have great concern regarding the quality and longevity of a "Ditra" tile installation.

    

First, why do many installers swear by the product I believe it is exclusively because it is so easy to use. It is light weight  no nails needed no carrying heavy boards cuts easily with a knife  and installs quickly .But I am not so concerned that my installer have a easy installation in my home  but more so I get a quality installation that will last a lifetime! I am afraid this product  doesn't live up to that expectation And here's why .

The "Tile Installation | Tile Repair " manufacturer requires the use of unmodified  thin set mortar to both install the "Ditra" membrane on top of a wood sub-floor as well as then install again with unmodified thin set  the tile on top of the "Ditra". This type of thin set is the lowest quality type of thin set available costing like $5 per 50 lb bag. Right on this bag of thin set itself it says "for use on concrete floors" It also says to use "acrylic mortar admix" in this product (prohibited with DITRA). Now using Ditra on wood floors is defiantly not a concrete floor installation. Instead you are adhering plastic (DITRA) onto wood with a product that states right on the bag "for concrete floor installation only" right on the bag!!! This thin set again is the lowest grade thin set available on the market . And your tile is stuck to your floor only as good as the thin set concrete you use to install it. Now common sense and science dictate to me that by using this product in the way the manufacturer suggests you are in fact getting about the lowest quality tile installation possible.

I've attached some photos of the thin set and the Ditra so you can see this for yourself and make your own decision on the quality of this very expensive product . Now I don't claim to know everything about tile installations  nor do I claim " to be the best" I only offer my 30+ years of experience in installing tile and my professional opinion. I would love to hear from other expert tile installers on this issue. And again will approach these other opinions with a open mind.  Regards  chris

Ditra membrane adhered to floor with unmodified thin set

notice this thinset mortar says on bag ad acrylic mortar admix for strength

See this product stated for concrete floor installations Also notice it says meets requirements WHEN mixed with additive

See how this thin membrane is adhered to floor with only UNMODIFIED low grade thin set to wood floor

I mentioned earlier when I pulled this post aside in order to review and discuss the feedback we received with Chris. that Chris would read all the many contrary comments and consider his post and/or provide clear evidence of his stand.  ButChris insisted I put the post back up as he stands by his original post. In my haste to put the post on hold, I erased the very helpful comments from all kinds of tile experts.  I'd love to hear back from them.  We appreciate your patience. Thank you. Diana.