Rubber Membrane Shower Pan Installation

Rubber Membrane Liner Do's and Don'ts

In the past we've written  about copper pan vs rubber pan liner. This article focuses exclusively on the rubber pan installation itself. With step by step pictures of the rubber pan going in including the drain attachment you will see and understand the do's and don'ts associated with the correct install so you never have to worry about a leaky shower.

   

Always use a single solid membrane for your shower pan. It needs to be 2 feet wider and longer than your actual shower floor area. Example  if your shower is 3 ft by 5 ft  then you need a 5 ft by 7 ft solid rubber membrane. Your rubber membrane needs to go 1 ft up the wall nailed to your wall studs. NEVER nail below 8 inches from the floor. TO CLARIFY KEEP ALL NAILS 8 INCHES ABOVE FINISH FLOOR. Wrap rubber liner over curb and nail Only on outside of curb. NEVER NAIL ON INSIDE OF CURB . Fold corners inside studs when possible. The drain is a 3 piece set, The adjustable screw in drain attaches to the bolt down plate which creates the actual seal against the rubber membrane. The solid one piece membrane goes right over the bottom drain plate and is cut only with a small slit for the 4 mount bolts. The actual drain hole is not cut until the seal plate is bolted\screwed down. The pictures below clarify this process. 

After the membrane is installed  the Hardi board can be installed on the wall AGAIN  NO NAILS BELOW THE 8 INCH MARK ALL NAILS NEED TO BE 8 INCHES ABOVE FINISH FLOOR  as not to create a leak in the membrane. Hardi board can be nailed on top of the curb with generous amounts of caulk used under the Hardiboard to insure top of curb seal .  Hardiboard on inside of curb is NEVER nailed  and will be held in place by the concrete packed on shower floor to create slant to drain.

Rubber membranes installed correctly can always be counted on for decades of leak free shower use. They are by far the most dependable as well as the most economical options for shower floor dry installation. The highest quality option and the most affordable; can't do better than that!! 

Follow the photos below for the step by step walk-through. Ask any questions below. 

regards   Chris 

Rubber membrane nailed 1 ft up bare wall studs

Notice rubber membrane tucked into wall stud  and nailed 12 inches up wall stud

Rubber membrane wraps over curb then nailed on outside of curb and

  Hardi board on top with caulk under to seal

A closer look of membrane nailed up wall studs notice nails 12 inches high 

Rubber membrane ready for top plate to screw down to create 

watertight seal between drain plate and membrane

Top plate screws down in equal sequence to create watertight seal

Final tightening of seal plate om rubber membrane

Finish adjustable screw in drain  ready for concrete slant to be packed

Another view of membrane wrapping over shower curb

Hardi board nailed on wall after membrane installation NEVER 

nail below 8 inches from finish floor

Tops of curbs finished with Hardi board sealed underneath with caulk and nailed

Finished Hardi board installed after membrane installed.  Notice Hardi board caulked

 in corner to seal board

Ditra Flooring Membrane Underlayment System Reality Check

Ditra Flooring System Doesn't Make Sense

I've been installing tile most of my adult life. From the first introduction of Durock then Hardi board,  Even back as far as metal wire and hand "dry pack" concrete bed floors. I personally prefer Hardi board for my installation as I understand the "water barrier" properties of this product and would recommend this product and use it exclusively in my own house as a tile underlayment.

  

Although I am always open to the introduction of new products and always open minded to something that might prove to be a better product or a improvement upon current installation methods.

   

I've know of many tile installers who swear by the installation process of the "Ditra" product. But upon a closer inspection of the product and the installation process both from a common sense and scientific prospective I have great concern regarding the quality and longevity of a "Ditra" tile installation.

    

First, why do many installers swear by the product I believe it is exclusively because it is so easy to use. It is light weight  no nails needed no carrying heavy boards cuts easily with a knife  and installs quickly .But I am not so concerned that my installer have a easy installation in my home  but more so I get a quality installation that will last a lifetime! I am afraid this product  doesn't live up to that expectation And here's why .

The "Tile Installation | Tile Repair " manufacturer requires the use of unmodified  thin set mortar to both install the "Ditra" membrane on top of a wood sub-floor as well as then install again with unmodified thin set  the tile on top of the "Ditra". This type of thin set is the lowest quality type of thin set available costing like $5 per 50 lb bag. Right on this bag of thin set itself it says "for use on concrete floors" It also says to use "acrylic mortar admix" in this product (prohibited with DITRA). Now using Ditra on wood floors is defiantly not a concrete floor installation. Instead you are adhering plastic (DITRA) onto wood with a product that states right on the bag "for concrete floor installation only" right on the bag!!! This thin set again is the lowest grade thin set available on the market . And your tile is stuck to your floor only as good as the thin set concrete you use to install it. Now common sense and science dictate to me that by using this product in the way the manufacturer suggests you are in fact getting about the lowest quality tile installation possible.

I've attached some photos of the thin set and the Ditra so you can see this for yourself and make your own decision on the quality of this very expensive product . Now I don't claim to know everything about tile installations  nor do I claim " to be the best" I only offer my 30+ years of experience in installing tile and my professional opinion. I would love to hear from other expert tile installers on this issue. And again will approach these other opinions with a open mind.  Regards  chris

Ditra membrane adhered to floor with unmodified thin set

notice this thinset mortar says on bag ad acrylic mortar admix for strength

See this product stated for concrete floor installations Also notice it says meets requirements WHEN mixed with additive

See how this thin membrane is adhered to floor with only UNMODIFIED low grade thin set to wood floor

I mentioned earlier when I pulled this post aside in order to review and discuss the feedback we received with Chris. that Chris would read all the many contrary comments and consider his post and/or provide clear evidence of his stand.  ButChris insisted I put the post back up as he stands by his original post. In my haste to put the post on hold, I erased the very helpful comments from all kinds of tile experts.  I'd love to hear back from them.  We appreciate your patience. Thank you. Diana. 

Tile Floor Installation Costs for 350 sq ft

Affordable Tile Installations are out there...

But shopping around is a must. This  job was a repeat customer who had the exact same kitchen tiled 2 years ago and had a fire  in his home and called to have it tiled again.

All the Hardi board was laid on Tuesday and all the tile laid on Wednesday then grouted today. The total time to install this kitchen was 18 hours at a labor cost of $1475.00.This is a price you will have to really search around to find  but a experienced tile guy can get you installed for this cost and make  really good pay at the same time.

   

The materials needed to do this tile installation job  were as follows:

• 375 sq ft of tile
• 24 sheets of quarter inch Hardi board
• 12 lbs of 2 inch galvanized roof nails
• 4 - 50lb bags thin set
• 3 -25 lb bags sanded grout
•  1 -500 pc bag of 3\16 spacers

If you need a tile installation in your home be diligent shop around and do your homework to get the best installation at a reasonable cost.

On the first days all the Hardi board was installed. On the second day here you see the tile started

notice whole tiles in each door as the layout is squared and tile will all install off of this layout

Another view of layout with whole tiles in each door

View of whole tile in one door way

View of whole tiles in other doorway

Half of the room laid by noon time

A closer look at half of the room laid

Working in the rest of the room off of the finished half

Completed grouted room on the third day!

Intricate Marble Bathroom Installation

Deco Marble Base, Chair Rail, Pencil Trim and  Mosaic Border

          
This is the final part of the 3 series marble blog.

The first one walked the reader with pictures thru the demolition of a tub and the installation of a walk in marble shower.

The second one involved the installation of a 8 inch brown marble boarder with a Marble mosaic medallion at a diagonal in the center.

Each part of the series was much more detailed and difficult than the one before. This 3rd and final presentation is a 5th degree more difficult than the 1st .These Blogs are written here in order to inform and help people , for those of you who are handy with some experience you could do it yourself. For those of you who need to hire a professional to do it, very importantly this blog will inform you so you don't get taken advantage of. One of our up coming blogs will address this exact issue. Some good people out in Groveland Ma. had a major chain home improvement co give them a price on tiling their bathroom. And needless to say they were really glad they came across tile excellence.com because they saved a unbelievable amount and we will tell their story in a Blog soon. We are finishing up their job this week.

This bathroom installation job is located in Wakefield, MA. And was a intricate and detailed installation with deco marble base , chair rail , pencil trim and a mosaic boarder and floor. There are over 30 photos in a effort to show the detail and give the reader a clear idea of what has to be done to accomplish such a installation.

The first  9 pictures show the Hardi board preparations for tile with captions . The homeowner installed all the hardy board on the entire job all I did was seal up all the joints with the silicone pictured.

garden tub with Hardi board installed ready for tile

                                              

shower walls with Hardi board installed ready for tile

 

Hardi board seams sealed with silicone II to seal in any water

another picture of sealed Hardi board

all Hardi board seams get sealed with the caulk below

silicone II caulk used to seal all Hardi board seams

another picture of garden tub with Hardi board ready for tile

floor Hardi board installed  ready for tile

floor Hardi board is sealed at all joints here pictured where floor meets curb

 

 

 

 The next 3 pictures are of the garden tub with captions . notice the large granite one piece bench top installed with thin set 

Tile installed on garden tub with chair rail trim finishing the top of the wall tile

garden tub marble meets solid granite bench installed with thin set mortar

Another picture of the solid granite bench top installed  notice the 1 inch overhang

The next 3 pictures are of the shower floor with captions. One of a sealed concrete sloped to drain floor with Redguard ready for tile 

concrete sloped to drain with Redguard sealer on top

  

Finished mosaic broke joint tile on shower floor

 shower floor tile with granite thresholds used as finish for curb and bench end

The next 9 pictures are of walls being installed with captions. The walls are in a "broke joint " pattern and are 2ft by 1 ft marble.

Tile installed on front of bench against granite threshold

broke joint 2 ft by 1 ft tile going up wall

  

marble lines meet level in corners while horizontal lines are offset like bricks

                           

once vertical level ines are established then the brick pattern just stacks on top

once lines are matching in all corners the marble just stacks right up to ceiling

Double soap dishes are installed in the corner notice the granite threshold as a door finish

A close up of the cut in soap dish in corner

A mosaic design strip in the wall at eye level with pencil trim on top and bottom gives elegance



a marble wall behind toilet with a design strip  finished off with chair rail on top and bottom

There are 2 pictures of floor lay out with captions showing the lay out to start laying marble with a whole piece from the door.

notice  the lay out whole piece of marble in doorway layed out with the spacer to be used

a close up of whole tile to be started next to granite  threshhold

There are 3 photos of laid floors with captions. Again they are 2 ft by 1 ft marble laid in a broke joint pattern

laid floors notice the brick pattern of the 2ft by 1 ft marble

look at the top of the picture see the marble base where meets the back wall

a small hallway really highlights the broke joint pattern

Finally there are 3 pictures of deco trim tile used to finish off this job . The detail and difficulty of this job is amplified by the use of such

 trims and base throughout this entire bathroom.

hand rounded finished chair rail around garden tub

 hand mitered 45 degree base corners require great care and detail

inside corner 45 degree mitered  marble base